- The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the talk page of this case. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, read this for detailed instructions.
- Suspected sockpuppeteer
Ati3414 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
- Suspected sockpuppets
Moroder (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
67.170.234.213 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)}
67.170.224.36 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)}
24.7.125.29 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)}
- Report submission by
HarmonyThree 12:07, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Evidence
The implication is that User:Ati3414 is using these sock puppets to evade a permanent ban.
To show the connection between User:Ati3414 and User:Moroder,User:67.170.234.213,User:24.7.125.29 it is useful to first establish the patterns of User:Ati3414.
For those not familar with Ati3414, he made it abundantly clear and known that he is Adrian Sfarti during his bouts of self promotion. For example he got blocked for repeatedly adding his own name to the List_of_Romanian_Americans. He next caused trouble by spamming links to his papers all over the place. Here are some examples of those papers:
- wbabin.net/sfarti/sfarti9.pdf
- wbabin.net/sfarti/sfarti10.pdf
- wbabin.net/sfarti/sfarti11.pdf
- wbabin.net/sfarti/sfarti12.pdf
- wbabin.net/sfarti/sfarti14.pdf
- wbabin.net/sfarti/sfarti17.pdf
- ..etc
If you want an example of him openly admitting he is Adrian Sfarti, check out his comments when he got blocked for this behavior. In particular, all these papers display the author as "Dr. Adrian Sfarti" and while trying to convince editors after the block to allow the spamming he states "I would be more than happy to remove my name from the papers."
One reason I bring up this information is because Sfarti also participated on physicsforums.com (as "clj4") and was permanently banned there as well. He later created a new character ("nakurusil") which displayed similar behavior, and directly referred to making the edits on wikipedia which User:Moroder did. Because this user's pattern so closely matched Sfarti's a moderator was asked to check into the IP addresses and determine if they were the same people. They were. So through IP checks, User:Moroder has already been verified to be Adrian Sfarti / User:Ati3414.
Since the admins here at wikipedia do not have access to the records the moderators at physicsforums.com have, while strong implicating evidence, it is also important to establish additional evidence of identity through Moroder's actions on wikipedia as well. As you will see there is plenty, even including some IP address evidence on wikipedia as well.
First, Moroder likes to spam the same papers: [1] This spam is so well known that other editor's even refer to it as "Sfarti spam" when removing it. [2] Additionally Moroder has posted links promoting Sfarti's patent [3].
Second, Moroder edits the same topics as Ati3414. Looking through their contributions they have a very distinct combination of interests: they both focus mostly on relativity pages and computer graphics algorithms pages.
Third, while it is probably not worth the time, reading Ati3414's talk page and Moroder's talk page as well as their posts in the various relativity related articles' talk pages they argue on, it will show that they have the same style of hostile attitude and way of dealing with other editors.
Fourth, they live in the same region and use the same local ISP -
- Sometimes Ati3414 forgets to sign in and shows up as User:67.170.224.36. It is apparrent in the content, but if you have any doubt here is an example edit that proves it: changed signature after logging in.
- Similarly Moroder sometimes forgets to sign in and shows up as User:67.170.234.213 (proof) or as User:24.7.125.29 (proof).
- Tracing these IP's show that all three IP's go through te-8-3-ur01.santaclara.ca.sfba.comcast.net right before reaching the destination.
-- HarmonyThree 12:07, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
Wait a minute, Kevin, you just signed up as HarmonyThree. Talk about sockpuppets looky here:
130.126.15.57 aka 130.126.15.145 aka HarmonyThree Moroder 18:24, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently the source of the report is a pair of sockpuppets themselves : 130.126.15.57 and 130.126.15.145, the aliases of Kevin at UIUC (the IP addresses trace back to UIUC).
Kevin has been caught trying to defraud his fellow students by mr. AS in collaboration with the police. Since then he has been warned by the faculty staff to stay away from mr. AS. Nevertheless , he continued a pattern of cyberstalking, as evidenced by the above. Kevin, aka Gregory9 aka 130.126.15.57 aka 130.126.15.145 has no interest in wikipedia other than stalking mr. AS. His only "contributions" to wiki are in the form of harrassment and an occasional vandalism. Kevin has filed a frivoulous lawsuit that has been thrown out of court, he has nothing better to do than stalk real contributors because he is seeking revenge from being caught. He imagines seeing mr. AS in every poster that matches his delusions. Time to grow up and get a life. Moroder 15:58, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Good detective work, User:HarmonyThree! I was just discussing apparent sockpuppetry with the moderators over at Physics Forums, where socking is strictly forbidden, and where PF user "nakurusil" has been causing much grief (unfortunately just one of several problem users). This will save me a lot of work in my discussions with moderators there! Harmony, FYI, I am PF user "Chris Hillman" (currently inactive due to a spate of sockpuppetry, trolling, and crankery).
- It is unseemly when two registered WP users report each other as sockpuppets, but it seems to me that the only relevant point in this section is that HarmonyThree, whoever he/she might be in real life, has provided (in my view) clear and convincing evidence that these two users and the two IP anons can be identified. I also find the evidence of habitual Sfarti-promotion convincing evidence that this individual is most likely Adrian Sfarti. Actually, if Bogdaniusca's translation is accurate, Ati3414 has referred to Adrian Sfarti in the first person, so there really seems no room for reasonable doubt. I can provide more information about Sfarti's "throughtprint" (idiosyncratic interests and so on), but that seems superfluous. ---CH 21:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Additional: a PF moderator just confirmed to me that PF user "nakurusil" was indeed (AFAIK, independently of this WP investigation) confirmed there a few days ago as a sockpuppet of a formerly banned PF user, "clj4". Since sockpuppetry is strictly forbidden at PF (I think that's a very sensible idea!), "nakurusil" has now also been banned from PF.
- I feel that "interservice cooperation" between Wikipedia and other public forums where sockpuppetry has been a problem could be very helpful. As this case shows, an individual who is habitually engaging in puppetry in one forum is apt to do the same in another. I hope some admin here at WP will quietly compile a list of WP admins who know sysops at other large public forums. I have in mind some kind of blacklist of habitual puppeteers and trolls, somewhat like existing blacklists of open proxies and spammers.---CH 00:43, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There are about 50,000 people at UIUC. Yes, I go to UIUC and yes I came from the physicsforums and signed up an account with the intent to report you for evading your ban. That does not make me Kevin. You have accused a friend of mine (User:Socrunchy) of being a sockpuppet in the past for trying to stop your self promotion as well. Just because there are several accounts, and even several from UIUC, trying to stop you does not mean we are all the same person. You are "infamous" enough that many people know the details and patterns of your past behavior (see CH's post above even, he found a nice old post from you adding even more evidence).
Moroder, I also note it interesting that you admit to knowing personal details of Sfarti's life. This is just more evidence against you. And as for your rant, the only people that will know what you are referring to are those at UIUC and we know that what really happenned was nothing like that. Sad to say, some fellow undergrads find the story interesting enough that they are going to try to get the engineering department to pay you to fly out and give an invited talk as they find the story so entertaining. It personally disgusts me that your acrid personality may be rewarded in anyway. I hope it does not happen. -- HarmonyThree 01:08, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I forgot to add one link up above: here is Bogdaniusca's translation of the edit in which User:Ati3414 speaks of Sfarti in the first person: "I wrote the wikipedia entries as well as the attached articles, in my own time, just to help those who can't afford exorbitant prices", where "attached articles" appears to refer to certain signed "publications" he was adding to external links to, which are located at the "crank journal" The General Science Journal, such as The “Twins Paradox” - Demystified, which is bylined "Dr. Adrian Sfarti".
- We should add 67.170.224.36 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (that is ca.comcast.net again, same as for the other two IPs already mentioned here) to the list of Sfarti socks. Sfarti's first edit as this anon was to add himself to two lists of notable Romanians. Apparently he was promptly deleted on the grounds that he is not in fact notable, and in a fit of pique, simply blanked the entire list!
- Good work, HarmonyThree! But for the record, in future I would strongly advise against registering a WP account just to report one vandal. You can ask active admins for advice here; I think the current consensus might be that it is acceptable to keep one sockpuppet account for things like reporting misbehavior which can lead to retaliation. Contrary to Sfarti's belief, I myself have never had any sockpuppets, either here or at PF. I don't think Sfarti is "infamous", BTW, although I do think he should be on some blacklist of habitual sockpuppeteers. I only know about him because last year I attempted to study the question how serious a threat information manipulation by self-promoting cranks poses to the Wikipedia. He is only one of literally hundreds whom I had concerns about wrt socking, wikishilling, and so forth.---CH 01:45, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Kevin, go get treatment. You and your sockpuppets are seriously sick. Moroder 01:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Lets cut out the personal attacks and speculation as to people's real identity, it doesn't help and it doesn't really matter. Ati3414 (talk · contribs) was indefinitely blocked for legal threats, not community banned; it is an important distinction. Indef means the individual who used the account conceivably can come back and contribute to Wikipedia, but if they are engaging in the same sort of behavior they were blocked for they are subject to indef blocking or banning without notice. A ban means the individual behind the account cannot contribute to Wikipedia. Period. Per WP:DUCK I think Moroder (talk · contribs) and Ati3414 (talk · contribs) are probably the same individual. At this point though I don't see any evidence that Moroder (talk · contribs) has done the same sort of edits he/she was indef'd for with the Ati3414 (talk · contribs) (namely legal threats). I'll leave this open for the time being though if someone wants to post diffs that show this behavior. There were some claims to this at WP:AN, but I need to see evidence, not claims.--Isotope23 14:43, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- JzG blocked Moroder (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) as "Sockpuppet of banned user." --Akhilleus (talk) 16:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Fair enough.--Isotope23 16:28, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Conclusions
WP:DUCK these are the same individual and since Moroder (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) is now blocked, this is a moot investigation.